An interesting conversation in BGG is yielding some challenges with the rules, well specifically the Victory Conditions. Certainly not a game killer , but for those new to the system, this is a bit daunting.
YosT wrote:
Option “4.5 Hang Tough” mentions the extra road engineer.
between road-building and airbase
construction to bear in mind. A) It
costs 2T (not 1 SP) to improve a hex of
the Ledo Road. B) Road construction
requires an engineer with “road” on
the counter, and both it and any
supporting engineers must be
stationary and in the actual hex.Engineers working on a road hex must
be stationary and in Combat Mode.
Note that it is possible to build more
that one Ledo hex in a Movement
Phase, as long as each is connected to
an existing All-Weather Road (maybe
extended earlier in the phase) when
the construction attempt is made. [editor aha! so perhaps two a turn is sequence is ok!]
to fulfill the Mandalay condition
without the optional truck units (4.5).
It is also virtually impossible to
complete the Ledo Road in the game’s
time frame. [Editor Note No. It is impossible without 2 hexes a turn, not virtually! ;)]
conditions, the Ledo Road’s goal is to
connect with the all-weather road near
Bhamo; building the road so it exits
east somewhere like A62.18 or A62.22
does not result in Allied victory.
So are these routes eligble:
As the OP asks is it possible for 2 sections of road per turn to be built? 3.9 says “existing’ all weather road.
If I roll for one and its a success, then the next roll is therefore next to an existing all weather hex….ahem…well sort of….OK.
fine. [editor- so from the above yes you can do this]
If the track is usable then shortest route is 46 turns in 41 turn scenario for campaign #2 or 45 turns for campaign 1.
Assuming I counted correctly. = 46 hexes is the shortest route.
[however the orange route above is a non starter. In essence the modifiers make it impossible to lay the Ledo road thru mountainous terrain…ok.]
PLUS BAD WEATHER…. BAD rolls…..
Why is this in the game?
What am I missing here?
This is actually not in the errata. I would have thought a VC for a campaign would be picked up as an important error?
The whole section regarding Ledo road should be different if the auto victory is not possible. Thats seems to be major boo boo for such an old game.
What if you jumped in and played 38 turns only to realize your strategy to win via Ledo road was not doable? Or Perhaps in trying to achieve the Ledo road goal you achieve the other VPs as a by product so it all works out!?
So what is the strategy then?
It looks like there are at least 4 players new to OCS (including me ) wanting to know how to play this ‘well’ or at least not make critical errors.
Would it be a strategy to obtain VP’s from Ledo Road hexes in the Myitkyina-Bhamo area?
It would still take 24 turns+ to get to Myitkyina, un opposed, and perfect
rolls. It would feel to me like any VPS to be had there are unlikely. If you capture Myit you have won in any case more than likely as it is worth 20 VPS.
This is nicely balanced however against VPS for the Japs for Ledo road “shortfall” to Myit.
SO ALLIES MUST ATTEMPT TO MOVE LEDO road along!!!
So the Allies must capture Myitkyina 20 VPS – got it! That is on the bucket list already.
They must make sure their 1/2 VP per cutoff of rail matches or negates the Imphal – Dimapur Japanese VPs. So Kohima is critical to maintain control of.
Of the VP hexes – Kalewa and Indaw appear to be a jungle too far (I know nothing of this game yet just my gut feel on ability to achieve from my limited play) Let us assume then that is 10 VPS for Japanese.
It comes down to control of Kohima and Mogaung (10VPS) for the Allies if they want to achieve victory as Kohima also prevents VP accumulation for the Japs via in supply status within range at games end.
Hmm things look tuff for the Allies. If the Japs keep Myit, they win? If the Japs lose Myit they can either capture/ recapture Kohima/Mogaung, and or insert 10+ units within 6 hexes IN supply of Imphal area. Seems like a struggle for the Allies!
More shots:
I’d say the current VCs at least do serve to discourage an unhistorical switch or concentraton of effort by the local commander. Not working on the Ledo road is a non-starter – the political situation required it to be pressed to the utmost. The Japanese weren’t unified enough to pull off a ‘abandon N Burma to take Imphal’ liine, and if they do here, the VCs allow a huge pile of VPs and an auto victory to offset any gains they make in India. The Imphal auto-victory keeps the Allied player from abandoning that front to work on the road.
Good points the balance is nice ONCE you understand. However the casual…its nearly impossible to got those vps errat drove me nuts. Then why have it.? just make it mandatory to attempt the road, as it helps your objective capture of Myit’ in any case, rather than tacking on a VC that cannot be achieved. From what I can tell (and no doubt I am playing lots of things wrong, it all comes down to Myit’ in any case. With either side wins.
Actually, those are auto-wn conditions, not VPs. Progress of the road also gives VPs to both sides – 3 pts to the Allied side for progress forward at some point and 1 pt to the Japanese for every hex short of Myt the road is. So even without completing the road, letting the Chinese build that road too close to the final destination changes the final victory balace, perhaps fatally.
A problem with just giving points to cities is that it just encourages both sides forting up in some kind of Jungle Stalingrad.
The Auto WIns are just punishment. If the British just gives up the frontier and retires to India and drinks Gin and Tonics, he loses. If the Japanese give the Allies a free hand to build the road and retake Burma, they lose. The Road-Bound Brits have to fight in the mountains where the Japanses can run rings around them and cut them off and the Japanese have to come out of the hills and fight the US and Chinese in the open to stop the road.
In the Tunisia Game there were a couple of rules called “Dumb Ways to Stop the DAK” and “Dumb Ways to Stop the 8th Army”, basically saying that any unil lined up on the board edge to the West Desert gets eliminated.
I would need to check but firstly there are no VPs for Allies for the road before Myit’ only after it (japs get them for NOT allowing completion of the road, which is a good reason TO do the road! ;).
The auto win for road building is not possible to achieve in the # of turns to hex XX.XX .
So it should not be in the VP/Vc conditions. Its wrong and not addressed in errata other than ‘almost impossible’, which I think is code for it was designed wrong but we aint got a fix for it. Just surprising given all teh other erratta I see for these OCS titles.
Myit is a 20 vp swing who ever owns it, and is the only city likely to be captured by the brits unless they can grab stuff down the rail line.
The Japs can hang about in the jungle and forage until the end then flood imphal kohmina area for 1 vp per unit, negating the 1/2 vp a turn the rail is cut .
OR if they are going well and they capture Kohmina & get the supply vp for imphal being cut they can gracefully pull back to Myit, and hold it and Indaw, for the win.
All of which makes me worry that I am playing something wrong somewhere, as I see NO way Myit can be taken, unless surrounded and cut from supply, which the Allies have a hard time doing.
Whereas Imphal is a veritable fortress and the supply from Kohmina is secure, and it wont fall in combat only by supply being cut tha tI can tell.
Still its mid May time enuff to see what will happen. I however am itching to get something a bit more dynamic on the table.