Maymi and Gesine – On the Wargame Podcast Guns Dice and Butter. http://ec.libsyn.com/p/c/2/1/c21e9163624c98a8/GDB_XVI__July_31_2014.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01cf8234d1c15b7de2&c_id=5919028